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Flying to Africa for my East African adventure did not start off too well. Between the delay and subsequent downgrade that I covered in my most recent article, getting to Nairobi was a comedy of errors. Despite this issue, I received no compensation for an involuntary business class downgrade.
This article is more of a question: how should I go about receiving compensation from Lufthansa for my involuntary downgrade?
This article is part of my Trip Report: Starting Summer in East Africa including:
- My Comically Bad Luck Flying to Africa
- No Compensation for an Involuntary Business Class Downgrade?!?
- Review: Lufthansa Senator Lounge IAD
- Review: Lufthansa Business Class Lounge IAD
- Review: Lufthansa B747-8 Economy IAD-FRA
- My First Flight on the Queen: My Thoughts
- Review: Lufthansa Senator Lounge FRA
- Review: Air Canada Maple Leaf Lounge FRA
- Review: Lufthansa A330 Business Class FRA-NBO
- Review: DoubleTree by Hilton Nairobi Hurlingham
- Review: Air Kenya into the Safari
- JW Marriott Masai Mara Review: Luxury in the Savannah, a Truly Unforgettable Safari
- Is the JW Marriott Masai Mara Worth $3k a Night?
- Review: Aspire Lounge Nairobi Jomo Kenyatta (NBO)
- Review: Kenya Airways NBO-ZNZ E190
- Exploring Tanzania: My Thoughts on Zanzibar
- When Flights Don’t Go as Planned: Delayed in Zanzibar
- Review: Air Tanzania ZNZ-ARK
- Mt. Kilimanjaro Day Hike: My Thoughts
- Exploring Moshi, Tanzania: What Everyone Gets Wrong
- Review: Twiga Lounge by Aspire Lounge Kilimanjaro International Airport
- Weirdest Flight Delay I Have Ever Had…
- Review: Hyatt Regency Addis Ababa Executive Regency Suite
- Exploring Addis Ababa: My Thoughts
- Review: Ethiopian Cloud Nine Business Class Lounge Addis Ababa
- Review: Ethiopian Cloud Nine B787-8 Business Class ADD-IAD
- My 18 Hour Odd Business Class Experience: A Stop in Lome, Togo?
The Downgrade
I booked an ANA award ticket to fly on United and Ethiopian to Nairobi, but United delayed my flight and subsequently rebooked me on their partner: Lufthansa.
When trying to board the flight to Frankfurt, my business class ticket was involuntarily downgraded to a middle seat in economy due to a maintenance issue. Luckily, I still received my business class seat on the second flight from Frankfurt to Nairobi.
After the downgrade and taking my seat, I inquired about compensation and did some research online. I knew that EU261 would likely cover this situation and was advised to go to a Lufthansa desk upon arrival in Frankfort.
EU261 Compensation
While I got a pamphlet for EU261 and apologized for the inconvenience, the agent was unable to do anything at that particular moment. The pamphlet advised me to request compensation online.
I filled out the online form with all information including my two boarding passes and was told an agent would get back to me. I want to note that there was not a special section for downgrades compared to cancellations, so it was a little bit of a challenge to navigate.
EU261 requires that on flights that are over 3,500 km, a 75% refund in cash is due to downgraded passengers.
An agent reached out, seemingly happy to help if I sent more information, which I did. Unfortunately, after some back and forth, the end result was poor: I was told multiple times I was due NO compensation and that my case was closed. Of course, despite THE LAW stating I am due compensation.
Who is Responsible?
ANA issued my ticket. My ticket was supposed to be operated by United. I was finally rebooked on Lufthansa, who was the operating carrier and subsequently downgraded me.
EU261 compensation keeps it simple and states that the operating carrier is the one responsible for providing compensation, although Lufthansa argues no wrongdoing. I did reach out to United and ANA as well, who pointed the finger at Lufthansa (rightfully so).
However, let’s say Lufthansa is willing to give me a 75% refund. What would they refund? My ticket was $170 in taxes and 104,000 miles.
They have no way of refunding the miles and $128 in compensation, while appreciated, is quite frankly a joke. The cash ticket for these flights is over $5,000, which is an interesting perspective to look at.
The Last Point
Who should I reach out to for compensation? Further, how much should I expect back? Let me know in the comments your advice and thoughts!
To be honest, I’d really just like something that would make it possible to possibly fly Lufthansa upper deck in the future, whether miles or dollars.
Nonstop Points has partnered with CardRatings for our coverage of credit card products. Nonstop Points and CardRatings may receive a commission from card issuers. Opinions, reviews, analyses & recommendations are the author’s alone, and have not been reviewed, endorsed or approved by any of these entities. This post may contain affiliate links; please read our advertiser disclosure for more information
I actually think LH is correct. From what I understand EC261 actually doesn’t apply where you are going from a non-EU country to another non-EU country.
But… You may not be entirely out of luck. I would suggest trying again, this time under the US DOT regulations.
But for the purposes of EC261, he was flying into an EU-member nation, so the law would apply. It’s functionally 2 tickets: 1 USA–>EU and one EU–>Africa
It’s not 2 tickets unless they are issued separately. If you’re flying from say via Europe from the USA to Asia / Africa /m east with a transfer under 24 hrs EC261 does not apply as it’s a single contract.
. However if you’re downgraded it’s the original * ticketing * carrier that processes the refund of 75 % of the sector affected, not the operating carrier. If you paid with NH miles LH can’t refund its NH who credit them
If you paid a regular fare with a credit card it’s NH if it’s their ticket as you didn’t pay LH. LH can’t see the details as they are encrypted for security reasons. Only the original issuing carrier can do and LH wasn’t holding any revenue. LH will bill the issuing carrier via interline billing
Frankfurt is in EU
As Alon mentioned, because I am connecting through the EU, and therefore was on a flight to/from the EU, I believe the compensation rules still apply.
Simple solution. NEVER FLY LH. Ab 2100 uhr, küche ist geschlossen
EU261 does not apply in this case. Despite the fact you’re connecting through the EU, the ticket is for non-EU to non-EU. Sadly the rules say nothing is due in this case.
In a similar constellation US-EU-Africa on Delta/KLM Air France , I did get compensation a few years ago.
Did you submit to the airline directly or though an agency?
That was an error as USA -Africa EC261 doesn’t apply unless your original stopover in Paris or Amsterdam was over 24 hrs. If you purchased a single ticket say JFK AMS Lagos Ec261 doesn’t apply USA -Nigeria.
I would go to United and ask them to refund some of your points. They reboot you on a different flights and because of that the flight did not have availability in the class that you had applied for points in period
They rebooked me on a Lufthansa flight that did have business class award space available (I), it was then due to mechanical issues that I was involuntarily bumped. The award was issued by ANA, so United would not likely issue me miles.
Points would be the option they would likely find the easiest
See what the points would be with Economy and with Business from the 2nd leg cities
Then request the difference in points
Issue with points on ANA is that whether both were business or one segment was business and the other economy, it is the same price. I reached out to ANA but they are pointing all blame at LH, who rightfully is the one responsible for compensation.
Operating carrier is LH and operating carrier is responsible for EU261 compensation. Yes, there should be a EU261 compensation of 75%. Normally you take 75% of the regular flight price and that should be the compensation also for a miles flight. Because the flight right agencies are specialized on delays or cancellations, there is no easy way to get this compensation. Normally the only way is to sue them. There is a specialized lawyer Dr. Böse. He even writes a flight rights blog: https://www.drboese.de/blog/
I will have a look, thanks for pointing me in that direction. I have been trying to get 75% of the cash rate.
USDOT claim online is your best bet at this point.
USDOT does not handle matters related to European laws.
Yes, but DOT has rules of there own, including that they require the airline to refund the difference in price from an involuntary downgrade. In this case both DOT and EU261 rules would apply.
You can also try to reach out to AirHelp or a similar service that has very good success rates. I have been declined twice by airlines (4+ hour mech delay) and AirHelp was able to get the compensation due. They do charge ~30% fee. Good luck.
Did AirHelp actually help? I had a flight cancellation in the EU 2 years ago that met the requirements for compensation and AirHelp still says pending, they did not actually help.
AirHelp was very helpful in my case. I was returning from Rome to San Francisco (via Newark, or maybe Chicago) and the flight from Rome was delayed more than two hours, causing me to miss my connecting flight. They got me several hundred dollars ($700? It’s been a while) for a delayed flight that I hadn’t paid anything for. I was pretty surprised/impressed.
I recommended them to someone else who also had a good experience. I do think they know their stuff, and if you’ve struck out trying to get compensation on your own, it would probably be worth the 30% contingency to give them a try.
I have been waiting 2 years on compensation from my delayed flight from Italy that I used AirHelp to get. Might still be worth a try though.
I know that frequent fliers often get the best bargains by booking via alliance partners and/or by using partner flights. And, in your case, the flight disruptions you experienced only served to complicate things. Given all this, it’s a lot tougher to hold anyone accountable when something like this happens. Which may have contributed to why it was you who was shafted.
After all, look at all of the differing airlines and jurisdictions involved. Nobody wants to pay you that money, so there are a lot of oter places where they can point fingers instead. Sadly, I think you fall between the cracks here.
Unfortunately, falling between cracks here does seem to be the issue in the game of pointing fingers.
Lufthansa is right – it’s an odd carve out to EU261, but if you have a connecting ticket that starts outside the EU and ends outside the EU, then EU261 does not apply even if you fly on an EU carrier and connect in the EU.
Since the flight departed the US, a complaint to the USDOT would be in order, but it would be US laws that would apply to the complaint. You’d be entitled to the difference in price between Business and Economy, but not sure how that would be calculated here…
I would gladly settle for a refund in the points difference back to my ANA account, however, that comlicates things, so I am not so sure how feasible that actually is.
What a terrible experience – interesting it was a US agent that did the downgrade. looks like a similar situation happened here though the victim bought an upgrade to avoid it. They seem to single out award passengers possibly because it’s hard to justify 261 claims.
link:https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/swiss-international-air-lines/2116490-downgraded-j-pe-swiss-award-ticket.html
and here’s someone who got 800 euros on an award ticket by being persistent though may have been f to j
link:https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/lufthansa-austrian-swiss-brussels-lot-other-partners-miles-more/2066314-does-qualify-eu261-downgrade-f-due-5g-4.html
I will have a look, thanks for pointing me in that direction. The first passengers to be moved from the upper deck received business class seats on the main deck, and the majority of the rest received prem. econ. Curious if I never heard my name being called to the gate desk, since I was not notified until trying to board (as you pointed out, that may have been intentional on an award ticket).
One other thing to note is that when I checked in, I was offered a paid upgrade to F online for $1,500. Too expensive.
I’ve had better luck filing a claim with the country itself rather than the airline. So in this case Germany. I think
https://transport.ec.europa.eu/system/files/2023-04/2004_261_national_enforcement_bodies-2023-04.pdf
is the right place
https://www.lba.de/EN/AirPassengersRights/AirPassengersRights_node.html
Thanks for pointing me in this direction, I will look into that route for compensation. I’ll file with them and the DOT and see what happens.
It’s the ticketing carrier that processes the refund. Send NH proof eg boarding pass and they have to to the original form of payment
It also works with miles is 75% therefore on an award ticket if it was NH miles they recredit 75% of the affected sector.
I tried to get 75% of the miles recredited and they said it was completely on Lufthanasa. I did send boarding passes, but I will likely try again.
Loyalty Lobby has gone into similar issues and their resolutions previously. Check out their blog.
Will do, thanks!
Helpful for beginner to get traffic from social sites and improve site traffic.
If you could afford 5k for a ticket, you can suck up the downgrade. I’m sure you’ve got plenty other problems like, not getting ketchup when you asked for it on a burger…
In my experience, when a company refuses to honor legally mandated compensation, filing a complaint with the appropriate regulatory agency will often make them reconsider.
EU261 is good only when the responsible airline compiles. If not, you just need to file a complaint or even a lawsuit, and until then the airline doesn’t need to do anything.
Unfortunately, I think that you may be right. Curious if one of the agencies might help.
When this happens in the UK, the solution is to sue the airline using the Small Claims Court.
The compensation is claimed based on what it would cost to buy (from the airline) 75pc of the points you used (plus 75pc of any redemption fees.
Have a look at the UK site Headforpoints.com where the issue comes up a lot (and BA have been shed in the small claims court many times, as they never pay out voluntarily).
(Although the UK has left the EU, we adopted all EU laws when we left, so there is a UK version of EC261)
I think you need to find a German claims handling company to pursue this for you.
Agree that perhaps a German-based company may be more helpful for you.
Haven’t used them myself, but have heard of decent things about FlightRight (based in Berlin).
Indeed it’s 75% of the affected sector The ticketing carrier has to process the refund not the operating carrier. Therefore if it’s an NH ticket you should escalate it to them
Strongly recommend these guys:
https://diekmann-rechtsanwaelte.de/
Lufthansa is known for not paying anything and they helped me a lot.
If the case goes to a German court and you win LH also needs to pay for their fees that you get 100% compensation.
Thank you, will have a look.
You are lucky you got any seat. About all you are “guaranteed” of is that they will take you someplace at some time in some seat. No particular flight, time or seat is ever guaranteed under any rules that apply here.
The answer as I see it is What did ANA pay in MILES after your seat was DOWNGRADED by Lufthansa ?? I’m sure they weren’t charged the Business Class Mileage. after that downgrade You should get the difference in Mileage used back from ANA.
Note that it is reimbursement you should be seeking and NOT compensation – the latter is due for many grounds in EC261, but Article 10(2) of the Regulation is specific in its wording:
“If an operating air carrier places a passenger in a class lower than that for which the ticket was purchased, it shall within seven days, by the means provided for in Article 7(3), reimburse…”
Article 7(3) states “The [reimbursement] shall be paid in cash, by electronic bank transfer, bank orders or bank cheques or, with the signed agreement of the passenger, in travel vouchers and/or other services.”
The method of calculation of reimbursement due is laid out in the judgment of the Court (Third Chamber) for the case C‑255/15 in the proceedings of Steef Mennens v Emirates Direktion für Deutschland and ruled that “Article 10(2) of Regulation No 261/2004 must be interpreted as meaning that, the price of the ticket to be taken into consideration for the purposes of determining the reimbursement owed to that passenger, where he is downgraded on a flight, is solely the price of the flight itself, to the exclusion of taxes and charges indicated on that ticket, as long as neither the requirement to pay those taxes and charges nor their amount depends on the class for which that ticket has been purchased.”
Under this section,it is mainly accepted that you won’t get a percentage of the taxes and fees reimbursed – however, it could be argued that the amount/value/cost of carrier surcharge does, indeed, depend on the class of ticket issued and should thus be included. A similar argument could be applied to some taxes, if those taxes are dependent on teh class of travel, I would say.
I am struggling with EC261. I got nothing from Air France with a cancellation from USA-CDG-NBO (on the return) citing what others have referenced, the transfer through EU is not subject to the EC261 regulation. Since the downgrade was on the US to EU side, I would opt for the FAA and even small claims court. This is not an insubstantial theft of a purchased benefit whether with miles or otherwise and given my own experiences with Lufthansa customer service you will get nowhere by appealing to their good graces.
Airlines are no different from crooked bad governments, they are all a bunch of grifters. This just happened to me after paying for Business Class.
From personal experience they’ll tell you they owe you nothing until you hire a solicitor whose fee you also ask them to pay as they pushed you to hire him. The time changes drastically and they even magically find ways of compensating the miles… it’s an experience I’ve had with quite a number of airlines
Thanks, any you recommend in particular?